New price system for stacks

Gille

@mtmfx thanks man, for the support

Ricinport

Hi Gille
Don't let the Dev's beat you on this.
A simple page with a few essential Stacks for beginers will suffice as a start. It will grow from there.
This thing needs to be independant of the Dev's anyway to keep bias to a minimum..

I said I'd help any way I can, just ask.

Ric

Gille

Ric, you've got a point. I was thinking about teaming up. I'll pm you soon!

Ed Brenner

Watch that you don't 'step on toes'. The images used in a stack, such as the 'icon' is their property.

Gille

Don't worry Ed. You've made your point very clearly.

Ed Brenner

Sorry Gille, wasn't trying to offend you if I did. And if I did, I apologize.

Gille

Ed, no problem, my comment wasn't bad either. I know you are trying to prevent a second war

But don't worry, there won't be one.

Colorwave

I think a lot of it has to do with how it is presented. An independent review site would be better received than a site that was trying to also be a sales channel. Having no real or implied connection with any developers or products would be a good start toward not offending anybody. It might not be met by hugs and kisses, but it wouldn't be a call to arms either.

Gille

Ron, after talking with many guys here, it seems deeper than that. Can I use the stack name (no logo) with my review? Can I use their info for explaining the stack? Etc. It's a complex subject. And then there is the community that are supporting the dev's. Don't understand me wrong, I support my favorite dev's also (and give my money for their stacks) but it's very dangerous like that. If I try something different, I have to face the community. Like this, I have no chance to win this battle. I don't want a revolution, I want evolution.

Another thing... if you look at Wordpress -> they have a plugin portal with review comments, rating,etc. Look at Drupal, same thing. Look at other RW-like apps, they all have it (if they support plugins). But Ron... I can start a personal review website, that's easy, but it's small minded. I want a portal, ready for the future.

Normally I never give up, but this one will be a lost project I think. I had a good try like Ric said. So be it.

Gille

Guys, It's finally out: stackscenter

have fun
Gille

mtmfx

I just registered and checked it out. Very very nice. I will definitely take the time to rate and give comments on the stacks I have purchased.

Gille

thanks, mtmfx!

Dev support will grow fast so the there will be lots of big updates.

Cheers
Gille

Ed Brenner

Why do you have to register?

Gille

Ed, You don't have to register for surfing the website. It's all active.

But if you want to comment and/or have a try at the giveaway you have to register.

It's the only way of keeping things "safe" and have a high quality of users that will rate & discuss the stacks.

KS Gary

A little late to the discussion here ... most of it I will not comment one but there is one or two topics that have been mentioned several times in this thread that I'd like to weigh in on.

Since 2004 us devs have been searching for ways to offer "Demo" versions of themes. The problem is that there is no good way to do it. The architecture of a RW theme does not allow for us to do this in a good, safe way.
We have all tried using a variety of different methods, from
- Scaled down versions
- CSS files hosted on private servers instead of the theme
- complicated js algorithms
- etc ...

But the problem is that they are easily averted and very quickly end up on the "fileshare" sites.

Same goes for Stacks ... currently, it just isn't possible to create a trial or demo version of a stack unless you use one of the above methods.

The biggest reason is that neither a theme or a stack is an actual app or program, but rather a folder and files with a special extension.

Theme and Stacks devs are only allowed to work within the parameter afforded us by the surrounding app (In this case RW).

Second, the "pricing" issue ... I do not comprehend why, this is even an issue. Prices have always reflected what the market will or can support.
If the market can not support $40 a theme or $20 a stack then prices will begin to fall. If they can, then developers will likely charge more. It is that simple.

What a lot of people fail to remember is that the support time involved that goes along with each product is 50 ... 100 times greater than in the time it took to develop the theme or stacks. If a developer does not figure that into the cost of the item then they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Gille

@Ed I wanted to give a (positive) reaction on the google groups, but the post didn't post.

You are very different here then you are on the groups (very disrespectful).

Just wanted to say: StacksCenter is completely FREE. Dev's don't have to do anything but give their "ok" for posting their info & icons.

So what's the problem? Is free publicity bad?

And again... my reaction in the beginning of the post was wrong and i've said it many times already.

If you don't want to support the website or join the dev's it's ok. I respect this 100% and won't ask it twice.

Ed Brenner

@Gille

I don't follow on the 'disrespectful' part? And, since I have nothing to hide here was my first 'response' to the initial email in that group...

There was a big 'discussion' about it in the Forums before it came about.

http://forums.realmacsoftware.com/discussion/55952/new-price-system-for-stacks

I wasn't asked to provide my 'albeit' simple stacks. And I'm happy I wasn't.

I then followed up to another response...

And as you could see, my first response wasn't 'well taken'.

I don't see how any of what I said was disrespectful.

Gille

@ed, you have deleted the other messages... ok.
End of discussion then.

Ed Brenner

@ Gille,

I only responded twice to the Group. I don't feel it's my part to share responses that others made. If you have ought with someone else's response, or the initiation of the topic, then you need to take that up with them.

Your post targeted me specifically. So I made my responses publicly available here.

Gille

@Ed, if it's the case, I respectfully take it back.

Ed Brenner

@Gille,

No problem.

I have much respect for the fact that you are doing this in light of the past attempt that ended in 'chaos'.
And I hope it proves both helpful and successful.

Gille

Thanks Ed, I'm beginning to like you a little more now , haha

If someone never tries anything then they will never succeed.

SC is just the beginning. It will grow in many ways (always focussing on the stacks). The giveaways from Defligra is a great extra. I like the interaction, discussing , commenting of it.

I never wanted to copy RMS's addons section or RWC (I've great respect for Marten, he's really professional). SC is something different and I believe it has great potential.

Colorwave

If you mean Rapidweaver Central when you say RWC, I believe that is Marten and not one of the RW Garys (not that they are not worthy of respect, of course).

Gille

Ron, thanks, i've corrected it already

Colorwave

No worries, lots of good people involved in RW, and sometimes you need a scorecard.

Just out of curiosity, if stacks are only on your site by permission of the developer (which seems to be a big difference from the last site's approach), can a developer withdraw a stack that gets unfavorable reviews or ratings? If that's the case, that might mitigate some developer's concerns about bad energy and damaged sales. While it might be nice seeing the bad with the good, it would still mean that well received products were showcased, so the site would still have a purpose.

Some things that were said at the beginning of this thread did start things off on the wrong foot, but I don't understand why this site would offend anybody with it's intent. As long as trolls who might be on the site to damage someone's reputation are managed (and hopefully crowd sourcing the reviews addresses that, too), what is the downside?

Gille

Hey Ron. Indeed this thread had some bad moments and some mistakes where mine, I'm not hiding it. But SC has come out of this thread. So that's positive.

Dev's have always the right to withdraw their stacks, it is and stays their product so they have the right. But i've build a pretty good user system that will filter a great deal of trolls. If someone is trolling, they will be removed (after a warning). Things like that can always happen but that's just part of the game.

In fact.. it's a "quality stacks" portal so there is also a quality filter on it. Discover & Discuss the stacks is here the main purpose and often a good idea will boost the current stack to a new update with better features. I strongly believe in this.

I hope the community will let it grow, but with the giveaways and the future extra's it will be a fun place to visit