Do any of you sell your products via Fastpring?

Hey Devs,

We’re looking at ways of integrating payments into the RapidWeaver Community Site (and RapidWeaver). Our goal is to make it easy for users to buy and install addons. Ideally with one-click inside of RapidWeaver.

However, for this to work we’d need any addon developer that wanted to use this feature to have a Fastspring account.

If you don’t have an FS account, would you be open to creating one to sell your products inside the RW Community and RapidWeaver?

I was also thinking of putting together a RapidWeaver Bundle deal that we could promote to our customers, but again this would only work if you guys used Fastspring — as they can automatically handle split-payments.

Just thinking about ways of generating more revenue for us all…

Thoughts and feedback welcome.

Cheers,
Dan

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Some of the EU based devs (and myself) are still using Paddle. I was on FS before and won’t switch back to them for my main sales.

But: I still have this old FS Account, which could be used in addition to Paddle for these integration scenario.

How would this look like in detail? How would you get from FS the linked product download (which could be zip archive, DMG, etc) format?

Any revenue implications for the developer which is integration into this RW integration?

Sounds interesting :smiley:

However, for this to work we’d need any addon developer that wanted to use this feature to have a Fastspring account.

If you don’t have an FS account, would you be open to creating one to sell your products inside the RW Community and RapidWeaver?

Sorry, I don’t use FormSpring and would not consider opening a FormSpring account. Cartloom is my e-commerce service of choice. I believe YourHead and Weavers Space are also a Cartloom customers as well, though I don’t know how they feel about using two separate e-commerce providers, or switching. Like I said though, I personally would not though.

Fastspring was - a Long time ago - not able to handle EU vat correctly and therefore I switched to paddle and am really happy with them :slight_smile:

Cheers Maik

Thanks for the feedback everyone. We’ll take this all onboard as we move forward. I think there’s a real opportunity to make things easier for users to find and install addons. More on that later in the year.

FYI: We’ve slowly been moving back to Fastsrings (away from Paddle as they seem to be more focused on bluechip clients and SASS) and it’s going well. We started with the Community site, and have just moved over the Realmac Store. Next up will be Squash 3, and RapidWeaver 9.

Keep the feedback coming and I’d love to hear more from those willing to work with us directly (feel free to PM or email me about it if that’s easier).

Cheers,
Dan

@dan

I don’t own a FastSpring account, but count me in, whatever we can do to generate more revenue for us all, I’m all in. Thanks

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What is the revenue split you’re looking at for this?

So I’ve thought on this more today and I feel like while this makes things slight more convenient for users, I don’t know that it leads to more sales or increase revenue as you said in your original post. It would still be pulling from the same audience we all already service. It would not introduce additional customers to the platform, and thus would not be introducing additional customers to our products either.

The RapidWeaver app currently links to the Community site to assist users in discovering new addons. Those interested in addons for the app visit the Community site through that link and find products that meet their needs. Some users also use search engines, or find out about addons via word of mouth suggestions on the forum.

Adding such a feature in-app would be nice, and possibly more convenient than having to go to the Community site. But it is still the same customer base.

So what am I getting at? Hear me out: If this functionality is to be built in to RapidWeaver I suspect there would be a revenue split, as was discussed when this very same topic came up several years ago. That means we’d be losing money by participating. We’d be pulling from the same user base as now, but paying out a split to Realmac for inclusion in the built-in addons store within the app.

Additionally I am pretty sure that FastSpring is more expensive than some of the services many of the third-party developer such as myself currently use, which would be another added cost – again cutting into our sales even further, as well as forcing us to use a service some of us don’t want.

If there is no revenue split planned then we would not need to be FastSpring users, right? You could just use the Community site data and then link to our products on our respective sites from the app’s addon store. The need for FastSpring though is to share revenue, correct? If so then by my guess we third-party developers would not be generating more revenue, but instead losing it.

I’m not out to be negative here. Really. I’m just trying to share a different perspective on it that you, and others might not have taken into consideration. From your point of view a a feature like this, with a revenue split, is nothing but positive:

  • It adds a large, user-facing feature to the app that will likely be praised, depending on its implementation.
  • It allows bundled deals that increase your visibility and team player image with the greater community.
  • It generates a great deal of additional income from a revenue split on the products of third-party developers.

From my point of view though as a third-party developer it is just the opposite:

  • It means decreased revenue as it will now be split with Realmac.
  • It means having to use an e-commerce service that we don’t want to use. One that is likely more expensive than what we currently use. Again, more decreased revenue.
  • It means looking like a non-team player if we don’t participate.

Some might come back though and say, just raise prices to account for the revenue split! Well, then the revenue split goes up and sales go down. Users are likely to push back or not buy products that get price hikes to accommodate such a split.

I see it this way – we’re all on this ship together. We’re an ecosystem where we all need one another. If some parts of this machine can’t go on because of decreased revenue, then others will suffer. It is a very delicate balance.

Personally, I think if the goal is to benefit the user base then the solution is to incorporate something like this into the app but to do it in the same vein as the Community site. Developers list their wares and their products appear in an in-app marketplace for users to browse and purchase. This meets our customers’ needs and gives RapidWeaver a big, new user facing feature. Then those product listings in the in-app marketplace link to the developer’s site for the purchase itself. This benefits developers in helping make our wares discoverable. Then if you like sell advertisements – premium placement within the in-app marketplace. Then you can get an additional income from those who wish to advertise. Again, this is another positive for Realmac in that it leads to additional revenue. You could even sell the advanced courses, etc that you already do, but in-app.

Anyway, enough from me for now. This was all just on my mind, probably because it seems like we’ve been down this road in the past, and needed to get it written down.

@Elixir, Good feedback, I like it. This is just an idea right now, one that has been brewing for a looong time (and wasn’t possible with Paddle). It might not even happen, but I wanted to bring it up here to get the kind of feedback you’ve just given :+1:

A couple of counter-points to think about:

  • Our % would be very small, more inline with a processing fee, we’re not Apple (thankfully!).

  • If a user already has a community subscription we have their card details. It’d be one-click to buy anything from our store.

  • Users could buy multiple products from different vendors at the same time. it’s a hassle to visit multiple sites and enter the same card details every single time.

  • If it was integrated into RW, users could potentially try out addons right inside the app, and then just hit “buy now” if it did what they wanted… You have to admit, this would be pretty slick!

  • We could easily do bundles, should the relevant parties be interested. For example: Buy RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation all in one go for a slight discount. Or users could mix n match the bundles they wanted. It opens up a lot of possibilities.

If we ever did this, it would be 100% optional, and we’d support you guys either way.
We’re never going to tell you how or where to you can sell your addons. Our goal has always been to make RW better for users.

Anyway, this is just an idea that I wanted to float. May never happen as we have plenty of other RW stuff we want to do before this :blush:

EDIT: Forgot to say, good suggestion on the ads/premium placement idea, we could just go this route in-app and make it easier for everyone! Will give it more thought. Cheers!

@dan - I think it’s going to be hard to get americans to go for this. 15% to FastSpring is a huge hit.

But I was thinking…

Does Brexit mean that UK folks could also now use CartLoom and avoid the 15% too?

Maybe it would be a quick way to increase your revenue by 15% – without squeezing blood from our stones – so to speak.

Isaiah

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Even so, that is more than I’m paying now, and I’d have to add FastSpring’s fee (which is what, like 15%?) to your “processing fee.” What is the RMS % for?

That doesn’t make any difference to me, unfortunately. One click, two clicks, three, four… It still means increased fees on my end, and no added users to the user base. Increasing the user base is the most important thing. That comes, IMHO from innovative new features to the app.

This is customer convenience for sure. But it does not increase revenue as you outlined this was all about in your original post.

Slick? Yes. But again it is not a revenue increaser. Maybe even the opposite, in truth.

Yeah, but we know that isn’t totally true. We’d have to be a part of it or be left behind, right? There’s no way this doesn’t replace the Community site. So with that gone we’re down to word of mouth on the forum and Google searches, right? Cuts out a big form of discoverability without having to pay up, unfortunately.

This may sound like a criticism, but it isn’t, so just hear me out. Making things better for users starts with adding more innovation and user facing features that people want, IMHO. While an in-app marketplace is cool sounding, it doesn’t better a user’s experience building websites. Better tools for website building will bring more users, which will in turn raise the tide for everyone across the board.

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I am just a longtime user, not a developer. But since I do make my money with websites, here are my 2cents.

When I look at how Google rates websites, I want RW to be as compatible as it can be. Speed, libraries, all these things which gives my customers a good feeling whenever they throw my site into Pagespeed, Lighthouse and more.

Then I can convince more website developers to look at RW and to buy e. g. stacks and Foundry. I want and need the best tool, not the best marketplace for add-ons. This is - in my eyes - what RW could promise.

Thanks,
Jan

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@fulleman I’m going to start this off in a new thread…

EDIT: Getting Pagespeed to 100%

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Hi Dan,

I think most of the points have been very valid.
It always comes down to minimizing costs and still giving value to customers - much easier said than done.

As most of the old-timers know I tried to do something similar w/ WeaverMall, but the price-sharing was always a BIG sticking point.
I took a quick look at the FastSpring fees which are about twice what I currently use w/ PayPal, so roughly an increase from 4% to 9% fees.

The big question that would have to be answered up front is - how to increase our gross sales by at least 5% to support the new payment platform. Would it be marketed to the same customers or maybe custom emails sent out to new customers to entice them to buy (ie. new to platform).

I’m not adverse to it, but would need to know in detail what Realmac would do to make it viable for us developers.

Thanks,
Bill
Stack-Its

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That would only be a bare minimum unfortunately to break even with what you’re making now though, right? That wouldn’t be progress toward the stated goal from the original post:

For that you’d have to increase your sales much more than 5% in your example.

Bottom line: for European developers already using a reseller service like Paddle, Fastspring and comply to digital VAT obligations the purposed marketplace is more acceptable than non-EU developers who are getting away with not applying the digital VAT to their sales orders.

Don’t try to find a reason why an integrated marketplace with a one step shop and a better user buying experience would not increase overall transactions for addons inside this marketplace.

Don’t try to find a reason why an integrated marketplace with a one step shop and a better user buying experience would not increase overall transactions for addons inside this marketplace.

You’d be selling to the exact same quantity of users. Having a different store doesn’t increase your customer base. Increasing the app’s user base is the only thing that can do that. New users to the platform equals new customers for third-party developers. Putting a new marketplace in the app doesn’t increase the number of people using that app.

What do you feel would increase the user base of the RapidWeaver app itself?

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Just one example. DYOR.

So you, you the developer of addons, already is selling all of your addons to all current customers of RW? That’s a bold statement.

Remember we have to tell people how useful the Stacks Plugin is? Imagine people buying faster the Stacks plugin because of a more integrated way? Offers a broader customer base for you too, doesn’t it?

I did not say that. That is you putting words in someone else’s mouth. No, but my products are not sold to every single RW user. That is not something I claimed. But my products are already visible to all RW users via the RapidWeaver Community site, which is linked directly from the app itself. This means your products are also available to all RapidWeaver users via the same method, which is in the app already.

You’d still need to tell people why to buy the Stacks plugin. You still have to sell them on what it does and why they need it. This doesn’t change just because you have a store in the app. They’re not going to plop down the extra cash without a reason, bundle or not. That same discussion will be had time and time again unless Stacks becomes a built-in page type in RapidWeaver – which is not likely to happen.