Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer

[Anonymous (Anonymous Coward)]

Sorry. I may be misunderstanding, Is this thread about capabilities, or does it just intend to throw shade at people and take a dump on their work?

[habitualshaker (Stuart Marshall)]

Come on. Davide is a big boy. He opted to come into a thread discussing these particular things with his sales pitch.

I’m certainly in no way disparaging his work. It is stunning.

[NeilUK (Neil)]

Many threads get hijacked with sales pitches nowadays.

If people want to use a support forum as a sales funnel, then their products and services are bound to come under scrutiny.

Users, especially new ones, should be aware of some claims and counter claims, and anyone who stands behind their products shouldn’t be afraid of it.

[teefers (Doug Bennett)]

@RapidBeaver

this is the F6 way.


Not sure how you can blame F6 for the bloated page.

Your chart emphasizes @joeworkman’s point above about image sizes. 3.78 megabytes of images on a 5.2mb page being images. That’s over 70% of the weight of the page.

In fact, if you looked at the individual files being loaded by the browser, you’ll see that even some font files are larger than the JavaScript or CSS files are.

And if you navigate to the “Stacks” page from the Home page, only 86 KiloBytes need loading. Everything else is coming from the browser’s cache.

BTW: 77kB of the 86kB is a chrome extension so really only 8.8kB was needed for the subsiquent page.

[peterdanckwerts]

… which explains why it loads immediately on my fairly slow broadband.

[Flash]

Download the demo and pick the framework that makes you happy and comfortable. At the end of the day if you don’t have fun you’ll quit. For what you are doing in the first 6 months of using Rapidweaver anything will get the job done. Pick the one that makes you sing!

[indridcold]

Hi @davidefan

Love your work! May I ask a question? On the Nero demo page, when I scroll down to the bottom of any of the demo pages, the entire left hand menu and the container it’s in. Might be class sticky is-stuck is-at-top, not certain, flashes white for about 1 to 1.5 seconds. It’s a bit like a fluc, but only when I scroll to the bottom of the page - no issues on loading. It kinda impacts the aesthetics.

Using Chrome:

Google Chrome is up to date
Version 87.0.4280.88 (Official Build) (x86_64)

Just thought you might like to know.

[davidefan (Davide)]

@indridcold Thanks for your message, I can’t replicate the issue you mention. So it’s a sidebar issue? Blinking?

[davidefan (Davide)]

@habitualshaker Thanks! The version you see online is the pro version with all the fancy animations. The light version is seriously built with F6 stacks only, and it’s impressively close to the Pro version. If you want to use F6 stacks only you can totally do it. Each section that use a non F6 stack, comes with an F6 only build too. You obviously lose some charm that impact, or scroll mate gives though.

In general I agree with you! Both Professionals and amateur users will always use other stacks to enhance the look of a website (This is true outside the RW world too). But one thing is using third-party stacks for specific features, another is use them for every section or simple layout that could be easily built with the framework stacks.

In the past years I’ve helped quite a few RW users to achieve the vision they have for their websites. 99% of the time I would open project files so complex that would take me hours to understand what is going on. The issue here is that a lot of users keep using Foundation, Foundry, Source, … as they were themes, while they are so much more than that.

It’s just a matter of finding the product that better fits your needs. I’m grateful to all of you devs that spend so much time and energy to build and support such products. This sort of discussion can be found in every business field where people debate heavily on what are the best tools to achieve a goal.
That discussion always ends in the same way: They are tools, use the one that is more likeminded to you. If then you see another tool that can do even more than the one you are using, move on if needed.

I use Foundation 6 for the way it works. Since I started to use it I have cut the usage of other stacks of 80%. Yes, that comes with a learning curve, but it was totally worth it.

[Anonymous (Anonymous Coward)]

Certainly. Let’s review. This is the actual title of the thread, “Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer.” In that title, the comparison requested was between Source and Foundation. Can agree on what the title says?

Where Source was not mentioned in the title, Stuart added himself to the thread. I have no problem with that. Hoever, in doing so, he highlighted that he formerly used to use Foundry, but switched to his own product, Source, the implication being Source is not “overkill in both size and the amount of stacks they offer[ed].” I agree with you. That’s certainly using the “support forum as a sales funnel” and scrutinizing.

Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer

I actually started with Foundry myself but found it (and the other frameworks) overkill in both size and the amount of stacks they offered. Especially as I was still needing to turn to so many third-party stacks to build the sites I wanted to build. So I built Source and can now do (virtually) everything I need to do with only it and the addon stacks. A lot of other people are finding the same thing - whether that is using Source for their own projects or for their clients as professional develo…

It was not the second such instance of scrutiny that invited my reply. That was in response to this, and I left it alone.

Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer

I haven’t got time to debate the ‘genius’ of F6. I do wonder where you are getting those numbers though. If your figures relate to gzipped/compressed files then that is a bit misleading as that is very often not enabled by default on servers. So unless someone is setting that up manually or going through a service like Cloudflare then they will likely not be realising those savings. These are the blank page file sizes that I have had reported to me for the different frameworks. (These may be f…

Going back to the original topic, that of wanting information about Foundation and Foundry, @davidefan showed an example of what’s possible in Foundation to which he earned the third criticism, prompting my reply.

But then I got this, from the person who added himself to the thread and started the shade-throwing.

Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer

Come on. Davide is a big boy. He opted to come into a thread discussing these particular things with his sales pitch. I’m certainly in no way disparaging his work. It is stunning.

Just as developers like Adam, Joe, and Davide should prepare to have their products criticized by people who hijack threads asking about those them, those who engage in that conduct can expect to be held accountable for it. I regret if that displeases you, but I neither regret my prior reply nor the sentiment I expressed therein.

Source, Foundaton, Foundry, and Davide’s products are all great stuff. Surely, the RW developer community is not so predatory that any given developer needs to diminish the reputation of any other developer in order to advance her or his products.

As you said Neil, when people join support forum topics with the intent of using them as a sales funnels, “…their products and services are bound to come under scrutiny.” Again, I agree with you, and such scrutiny is as valid from me as it is from anyone else.

[indridcold]

Hi @davidefan
Yes the sidebar/menu area momentarily goes white when I scroll to the bottom. I recorded it for you:

Upload files for free - nero_menu_flicker.mov - ufile.io

Sorry its a big file, I don’t have/know how to record screen as small gif or similar. Would welcome any recommendations for something nice to use for that from anyone.

Nero is gorgeous BTW, beautiful work.

[davidefan (Davide)]

Thanks for the video, can you please send a support ticket? I’m sure we’ll figure out whats going on there without going off topic here!

[habitualshaker (Stuart Marshall)]

@Anonymous

In that title, the comparison requested was between Source and Foundation. Can agree on what the title says?

No. It’s between Source and Foundry.

@Anonymous

Where Source was not mentioned in the title, Stuart added himself to the thread.

Source was mentioned in the title. It’s Foundation that wasn’t.

@Anonymous

from the person who added himself to the thread and started the shade-throwing

If any shade was cast it was merely due to illuminating what I think Source can do. I have the utmost respect for all other developers and what they do.

[channonite]

I am confused by this

Certainly. Let’s review. This is the actual title of the thread, “Source vs Foundry for a non-professional developer.” In that title, the comparison requested was between Source and Foundation. Can agree on what the title says?

Where Source was not mentioned in the title, Stuart added himself to the thread. I have no problem with that. Hoever, in doing so, he highlighted that he formerly used to use Foundry, but switched to his own product, Source, the implication being Source is not “overkill in both size and the amount of stacks they offer[ed].” I agree with you. That’s certainly using the “support forum as a sales funnel” and scrutinizing.

Surely the title and content of the thread and up until Joe posted, was all about Source and Foundry. There was no initial mention of Foundation. Certainly not when Stuart posted for the first time.

[indridcold]

You must be kidding, right?

I don’t own F6 or the template - I’m just a forum reader and occasional contributor who happened to follow your link and thought it would be useful for you to know about the issue.

This thread was already way off course before I posted.

[davidefan (Davide)]

I meant no offense, I thought you were having an issue with the project file. Since that is not the case, thanks for pointing out that issue. I’ll look into it and release an update.

[Jeso]

@davidefan I’m not seeing this issue on either chrome or safari on my Mac. Must be something on the users chrome install.

[indridcold]

Interestingly, I reformatted my MacBook Pro’s hard disk just yesterday and installed Big Sur from scratch.

What you see in that video is the behaviour following a pristine install of Chrome. Textbook conditions, actually.

I’ll recheck on Safari.

[Jamie1 (Jamie)]

I’m a non-professional and use Foundry. There was a slight learning curve but I watched a few of Elixir’s beginners tutorials and was up and running quickly.

Source looks cool I’d like to try it out sometime. I like the fact there’s a lot of choice out there with frameworks.

[indridcold]

@davidefan
Tried on Safari on my MacBook Pro 2019: No issues, the menu/sidebar does not flicker.

Tried on Chrome on my W10 Dell XPS 15 2018: I see exactly the same issue as on Chrome on my MacBook, the sidebar/menu does flicker white when I scroll to the bottom of the page.

Chrome version on my XPS15 is: Version 86.0.4240.198 (Official Build) (64-bit)

I also tried in Edge on my XPS 15 and its fine, no issues.
Seems to be a Chrome thing.