A few questions about the new store

[Massimo (RW Pro Space)]

Hi @dan I have a few questions to better understand how the store you’re building will work.

The idea of ​​centralizing everything through the Elements cloud with in-app sales (currently exclusive) is certainly a good solution, but I don’t think it should be the only option. Using the Elements cloud should be a conscious choice for the user, but not the only option available. Because there should always be the option to purchase a component through the online store, without necessarily having to use Elements to make purchases.
So I sincerely hope that component sales will also be implemented in the online store and that it isn’t completely abandoned over time in favor of just the in-app store, because that would be a mistake. The online store is a showcase that anyone can see, while the in-app store can only be visited by those who have purchased Elements. I don’t know for sure, but I imagine other developers feel somewhat this way, too. Given that we’ve decided to invest time and resources into creating/developing products for Elements, we ultimately risk less visibility.
This isn’t a complaint; I’d just like to discuss some ideas to better understand where we’re going.

Furthermore, it seems like it’s currently not possible to have a local copy of what you purchase, or am I wrong? The cloud is certainly an excellent solution, but users should also be able to have a physical copy of the product they purchased on their computer.

And then I’d like to understand what happens in this case: if I, as a “developer,” put a project file up for sale (or distribute it for free) that contains a paid component, what happens if that project is opened by a user who hasn’t purchased that component?

Thanks in advance,
Massimo

[dan]

@Massimo

The idea of ​​centralizing everything through the Elements cloud with in-app sales (currently exclusive) is certainly a good solution, but I don’t think it should be the only option.

It will be the only option, and we’re doing this for the benefit of everyone.

We’ve seen the issue countless times where users don’t know how to install, update, or move their addons to a new Mac. Worse yet, users have erased their mac and lost all their addons. Elements has given us a chance to solve this HUGE issue.

Users benefit from the Elements Distribution platform as they will be able to log into their Elements Cloud account on any Mac and instantly get access to all their previous purchases. It’s like Steam, but for the RapidWeaver Universe!

Users have no need to backup or worry about locating previous purchases, they are all stored safely in their Elements Cloud Account.

@Massimo

Because there should always be the option to purchase a component through the online store, without necessarily having to use Elements to make purchases.

We will have a web front-end for the store listings, and eventually users will also be able to purchase directly on the web, this will all be tied to their Elements Cloud account, so any purchases made will instantly appear in Elements. But, one step at a time. The priority is the built-in store.

@Massimo

I don’t know for sure, but I imagine other developers feel somewhat this way, too. Given that we’ve decided to invest time and resources into creating/developing products for Elements, we ultimately risk less visibility.

While I understand the need for a web store (and we plan to get to support that, as I stated above), you need to take a step back and appreciate what we’re doing. We’re building a store that will be tightly integrated into Elements, so your products will be in-front of EVERY single user.

@Massimo

Furthermore, it seems like it’s currently not possible to have a local copy of what you purchase, or am I wrong? The cloud is certainly an excellent solution, but users should also be able to have a physical copy of the product they purchased on their computer.

Purchases are downloaded locally to run in Elements.

@Massimo

And then I’d like to understand what happens in this case: if I, as a “developer,” put a project file up for sale (or distribute it for free) that contains a paid component, what happens if that project is opened by a user who hasn’t purchased that component?

When the user opens the project, and it has a missing component Elements will prompt the user to download/purchase the component from the store. This will all happen seamlessly (we’re working on this feature now).

What we’re building and putting in place with the Store and Elements Cloud is exceptional. This really is just the beginning.

We now have a new area for Store Docs, these are being worked on (and NOT final), but I would suggest you keep an eye on them as that’s where all the new information will be added as we move towards opening the doors to allow creators to join the platform.

[MichaelDroste (Michael Droste - Groundhog Feb. 2)]

As a complete outsider… for me the end user this is a tremendously important, good, and needed feature.

I literally don’t have email addresses for some old software. You know, the enter your email address and we’ll send you your serial number…

So many issues and problems are solved with this very clever software implementation…

Keeping the customers ease of use - makes a huge difference in their experience.

[PMUK (Paul Moore)]

I have always kept every serial number for every downloaded software package in an excel file which goes back to 2014 when I started. The reason I did this was early 1990 doing a big project a back up failed and caused me grievous pain and headaches. Since then I always BACKUP/BACKUP/BACKUP yes I have three copies of everything. Cloud/Time Machine and hard disk. Pain causes caution!

[Massimo (RW Pro Space)]

Okay, thanks for the replies.

I took a look at the Monetising Your Addon | Store | RapidWeaver Elements Docs and have a few more questions:

1. Is the portion you retain (30%) calculated on the final sale price (including VAT) or on the price (excluding VAT)?

2. Do Stripe fees also need to be subtracted from the 70% payment?

3. If, as you wrote, Realmac will handle VAT, then this means that, along with the payment, you’ll also need to send us a “reverse charge” invoice (for example, like Paddle, which I use in my store). Is this correct?

4. How often will sales be paid—immediately with each sale or in a lump sum at the end of the month?

Hey @dan , I’ll add these questions as well.

5. Typically, as happens when purchasing a stack for RW, the creator would also provide the customer with a simple project file with some pre-built examples, and often also a PDF file with licensing information, etc.
   With the new store set up this way, will it still be possible for the creator to provide additional files (example project files, PDFs, or other) to the customer along with the purchase of the component?
6. Will we developers be able to download (for free) an encrypted version of the component, before it goes on sale, so we can use it in the project file of the component’s demo mini-site?

[MichaelDroste (Michael Droste - Groundhog Feb. 2)]

I now try to keep the email and make a note of the serial numbers - date purchased - and invoice etc… seems to work well - have access on any Apple device as notes are synced…

[MichaelDroste (Michael Droste - Groundhog Feb. 2)]

Sorry you have serious questions… sorry to have inserted my comment…

[dan]

This advice is not final, it’s a snap-shot in time and what we’re thinking right now.

@Massimo

• Is the portion you retain (30%) calculated on the final sale price (including VAT) or on the price (excluding VAT)?
• Do Stripe fees also need to be subtracted from the 70% payment?

Each sale is split 70/30 between you and the Elements Platform. If your product is $10, you receive $7 and the platform receives $3. We also cover all Stripe transaction fees.

Where required, VAT or sales tax is added on top of your product price. We collect and remit this tax, and it isn’t part of the 70/30 split.

@Massimo

How often will sales be paid—immediately with each sale or in a lump sum at the end of the month?

Sales made through the Elements Store will appear in your Stripe Connect dashboard right away. The funds usually take 2 to 5 business days to clear before they become available for deposit into your bank account.

@Massimo

Typically, as happens when purchasing a stack for RW, the creator would also provide the customer with a simple project file with some pre-built examples, and often also a PDF file with licensing information, etc.
With the new store set up this way, will it still be possible for the creator to provide additional files (example project files, PDFs, or other) to the customer along with the purchase of the component?

Just like the App Store, or Steam Store, etc, the answer is no. However, an Element Pack can contain any number of products. For example, our Essentials Pack contains “Templates”, but it also has a nice sample "Project’ included.

@Massimo

Will we developers be able to download (for free) an encrypted version of the component, before it goes on sale, so we can use it in the project file of the component’s demo mini-site?

I’m not sure I fully understand what you want to do here. You have access to the Dev pack, so you can use that to test and publish example sites.

---

Having said all that, and this part is IMPORTANT We’re still building the store and working things out, so none of this is set in stone and our plans may change (drastically). Setting up a Marketplace is extremely complex (due to financial and legal reasons), if we deem it to be too complex we will make alternative plans.

Either way, we will keep everyone updated as best we can.

[logrunner (Jon)]

@dan

I’m not sure I fully understand what you want to do here. You have access to the Dev pack, so you can use that to test and publish example sites.

I have previously raised this point. The encrypted version isn’t the same as the DevPack. It has already been stated that using the DevPack involves Elements doing extra logging etc. If a developer wants to test what will be sold/released to other customers, I would have thought it advisable that the developer should be able to test what a customer will be receiving as it isn’t the same as a DevPack?

[Massimo (RW Pro Space)]

Will we developers be able to download (for free) an encrypted version of the component, before it goes on sale, so we can use it in the project file of the component’s demo mini-site?

Let me start by saying that I’m not exactly sure how things work, so forgive me if I write nonsense…
This is what I meant: I think I read somewhere on the forum that if you publish a web page using a DevPack (which doesn’t have encrypted code), it’s possible that someone with bad intentions could somehow retrieve the source code and create an identical component without having purchased it.
Is this nonsense I described, and is there no risk of the code being “copied,” or is there some truth to it?

[dan]

@Massimo

This is what I meant: I think I read somewhere on the forum that if you publish a web page using a DevPack (which doesn’t have encrypted code), it’s possible that someone with bad intentions could somehow retrieve the source code and create an identical component without having purchased it.
Is this nonsense I described, and is there no risk of the code being “copied,” or is there some truth to it?

This is nonsense. A published website doesn’t contain any kind of Dev Pack.
Dev Packs are like plugins, they run locally.

Dev Packs (.devpack) are for development only. They’re uncompiled and unencrypted, allowing live editing and real-time updates during development.

Do not share or sell Dev Packs: They’re not optimised for distribution and can cause performance issues if misused.

Before sharing or selling your work, you must compile it into an Element Pack (.elementpack). These are encrypted, optimised, and safe for distribution — You’ll be able to do this with the store, once it’s live.

The store is still changing rapidly, and it’s looking unlikely it will go live this year for creators.

If you’re planning to sell addons, don’t make firm commitments yet, wait until we lock down the final details.

[Massimo (RW Pro Space)]

Yes, certainly, I know and understand that, and I have no intention of selling any DevPacks; I will only list them for sale once you are ready for that.

However, I was interested in understanding—hypothetically speaking—if I were to publish a webpage in the meantime using a DevPack (to which I’ve added a component) and there were a malicious developer (and again, I am only speaking hypothetically to better understand the potential risks) who knows exactly where to look and what to inspect in the browser… is there any possibility that this bad actor could retrieve the code to ‘recreate’ (even if in a contrived way) a similar component?

[ben]

@Massimo

if I were to publish a webpage in the meantime using a DevPack (to which I’ve added a component) and there were a malicious developer (and again, I am only speaking hypothetically to better understand the potential risks) who knows exactly where to look and what to inspect in the browser… is there any possibility that this bad actor could retrieve the code to ‘recreate’ (even if in a contrived way) a similar component?

Anything that is published on a website can conceivably be copied or reverse-engineered to some extent, that’s just the nature of the web

However, none of the DevPack-specific code is ever published. Elements doesn’t upload your DevPack, internal logic, or development files to the server. Only the final HTML/CSS/JS output is published, exactly like any normal website.

So while someone could theoretically inspect the rendered webpage, there’s no way for them to retrieve your DevPack source, component structure, or implementation details from a published site.

Hope that helps!

[Massimo (RW Pro Space)]

Thanks Ben, I assumed so but just to be sure I wanted your opinion.

[MultiThemes (Michelangelo)]

@dan Thanks, you’ve answered many of the questions, and we look forward to further updates.

Thank you for the work you’re doing

One thing I don’t understand: in my components (devspack), I can see the folder (which I choose), but not in the store.

Where is the folder where purchases are saved on my Mac?

Can I make a local backup of purchases or transfer them to another Mac without going through the store?

That was my policy with RW Classic; I always recommended a local copy of the entire environment for every important or professional project. This also helps ensure backwards compatibility in case of problems with updates; that can happen

Thanks!

[dan]

@MultiThemes

Can I make a local backup of purchases or transfer them to another Mac without going through the store?

No. If you move them to a new Mac they will not work. They need to verified by Elements Cloud to ensure they have been purchased — This stops ALL piracy of addons.

When a user moves to a new mac they just need to sign into Elements and all of their purchased addons (including free ones) will be available for them to download and install.

[MultiThemes (Michelangelo)]

@dan

No. If you move them to a new Mac they will not work. They need to verified by Elements Cloud to ensure they have been purchased — This stops ALL piracy of addons..

Over time, the store’s benefits are being defined. For Components, it’s a more than welcome feature!

There is another issue that worries me about professional work and it is a habit that I have and that I recommend. For important work, it’s necessary to make regular backups of the environment to avoid problems in the event of issues with new features in components update.

Where is the folder where purchases are saved on my Mac?

Does the store retain all versions of the components still accessible?

thanks!

[tpbradley (Tom Bradley)]

@MultiThemes

Where is the folder where purchases are saved on my Mac?

I could tell you where this is, but honestly it’s not very useful. The pack content is fully encrypted with a build specific key. Without this key the pack file is useless. You’ll need to sign into Elements Cloud to restore the entitlements and decryption keys, at which point the packs files will be restored anyway.

You should consider Elements Cloud as the backup solution.

@MultiThemes

Does the store retain all versions of the components still accessible?

Yes all builds of every pack are stored on the Elements Cloud servers and will be accessible to anyone that has purchased them.

[MultiThemes (Michelangelo)]

@MultiThemes

Where is the folder where purchases are saved on my Mac?

@tpbradley

I could tell you where this is, but honestly it’s not very useful.

thanks for the reply

I’m an addon developer, I promote this software as an alternative to RW classic and to give advice to the customers (and there are many) that I have had over the years I need to be able to give advice and make comparisons between the old environment and the new one.

What’s the technical reason for not saying where the files are located in a discussion where other developers ask for clarification ?

Maybe I missed something?

thanks

[ben]

@MultiThemes

What’s the technical reason for not saying where the files are located

to reiterate what Tom said above: it simply isn’t useful information. The pack contents are fully encrypted using a build-specific key, and without that key the files can’t be opened or moved to another Mac. Due to this, backing up the pack file manually wouldn’t provide any benefit to anyone (except people selling you storage!)

If you ever need to re-download your Elements purchases (on a new Mac or a reinstalled Mac), you’d do that directly through Elements.

As Dan said above: This encryption method, built in to the Elements Store, stops ALL piracy of addons.

I hope that explains things fully!