Why people walk back when I mentioned Rapidweaver?

I’ve been encountered many people trying to push me to WordPress, Squarespace or Wix lately. I told them I work on Rapidweaver, and they start with the “you can’t update a live page with that” argument. Is there a stack or something that once you upload the website, a client can update it and alter the way they need?? This is totally new for me.

Why do people “walk back”? It’s mostly web designer snobbery. I’ve been at this for over 20 years now. I’ve learnt coders look down their noses at people who use things like Wordpress. Poeple who use Wordpress look down their noses at people who use things like RW. And in some instances people who use RW look down their noses at people who use Wix etc.

It’s rooted in a belief that “whatever I use is best and you should use it too”, plus the fact that many fail to see the end result from the users POV, only their own. The end users don’t care or know or even understand things like code, and WP and RW etc. They just want the website they are on to do what they need.

I started with code, then Frontpage (remember that?), then PHPWebsite, then a custom “framework” (hand made by a coder) and now RW. RW has been the tool that has built me a very strong longterm business that gives me a nice easy living with the time to do the things I enjoy most, which isn’t making websites!.

My clients like the sites I make for them with RW, they achieve what they need and the end users seem to like them too. This is all that matters. Not what tool I used to make the site.

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Of course there are. :slight_smile: What about…

• Total CMS - https://www.totalcms.co
• Armadillo - Armadillo - Remote blogging and online content editing for RapidWeaver
• EasyDB - EasyDB Dynamic Stacks for RapidWeaver
• WebYep - WebYep | Stacks4Stacks
• Poster Stack - inStacks Software | Poster Stack - RW Blog Replacement and Multi-Purpose Content Stack
• Alloy (Foundry-only) - https://alloy.elixirgraphics.com

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Snobbery indeed.

I started hand-coding in the 90s, used Wordpress and Mobirise in between and am now in RW (although currently developing a site in Wordpress for my girlfriend because she really wants it to be in Wordpress).

There are groups of people who look down on each of these.

The only important point is: what works for you? You can do pretty much anything in any of these platforms (well ok, not in Mobirise), but each of them forces you to use workarounds in different ways to achieve what you want. in the end it doesn’t make all that much of a difference, really.

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Well, Armadillo is my stack of choice. I use it always and recommend it too. Why some clients don’t like it? I don’t know. For some reason they mess around Armadillo and suddenly is unusable after I do a full re-publish of their sites. Total CMS I’m scare of it since F6 launch. I’m still figuring out how to create what I used to do with F1. In fact, I’m right now working with that directly on Joe Workman’s forum to see if I can finally can run with it as I do with F1. I think people want to get a website and keep making changes by themselves without hiccups. (impossible in my opinion but some people are difficult to try new things like my self indeed)

Thanks for the list, tho!

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You couldn’t say it better.

In Germany we have a saying, roughly translated “What I don’t know, I don’t like”. Wix, Wordpress (especially) are names known to customers. They have already an opinion on how things should be.

I remember the day a lawyer asked me to set up a small “business card” website, three pages: front page, team page and a contact form. He insisted to get this implemented using Wordpress because of easier changes through him. The site went live four years ago and hasn’t been changed since them…

The other thing why clients might not like RW : Wordpress is known, they probably already know how to use it, there’s a lot of poeple out there who can help them getting things done.

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What you are asking for is CMS… Content Management System and as pointed out above there are CMS tools for Rapidweaver.

As for those who don’t like RW… they just don’t know the truth. It happens to all of us. I was reluctant to buy my a new M1 Mini (I have 3 old 2013 27" iMacs) and upgrade OSX because I had some apps I used every single day that didn’t have updates to new OS and would become un-usable. (I still prefer the “old” Pages for some jobs because of better scripting support.) But I broke down and got the M1 and I forced myself to find new “replacement” apps. I use Keyboard Maestro and I have tons of macros so all those had to be updated too. Here I had a new M1 Mini and I was NOT looking forward to the move. (I was also on old versions of RW)

But of course, once I found new apps, fixed my macros, updated RW, etc, etc, etc, I fell in love with the new OS and the M1 Mini! I’m MUCH MUCH better off than before in all respects.

Point of my story… I was a “snob.” I didn’t think my old setup (machine, apps, macro’s, and all) could be beaten. Honestly. I almost couldn’t bring myself to make the move. But I was wrong! I was wrong. I just didn’t know the truth of the matter because I had not kept up…

Oh, and RW is working flawlessly after the update…

(Now, if Apple would just put full scripting support back into Pages. I still have some jobs that I go to Pages '09 for on my old iMacs, just due to the better scripting support.)

Important edit made: 2nd paragraph: from “they just know the truth” changed to "they just don’t know the truth."

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Most of my sites are built for clients who do not want to waste their time keeping up with the aspects of running websites - they’re busy making money running a business. That’s why they’ve hired a good web designer. But, for those that want to maintain the content themselves, there are solutions (mentioned above) that we can incorporate into our sites that allow them to do so. Some people/companies like having that level of control, and I think it’s great when they do. If we’ve done our job well, then it’s easy for them to make changes/additions/deletions to their site, on their own watch. Because of the extra time it takes on the front-end, I charge accordingly.

And, if you’re crunched for time or resources, there are designers who sell projects (at a very reasonable price) that do the heavy lifting for you.

You can see some examples of these types of sites on my own site: North Georgia & Atlanta Web Design | Portfolio

Most of the sites shown do not allow for complete customer control - but the David Kennedy site not only does, it is also in two languages (English and Spanish) - and is shown to the visitor in their native language (or, they can switch). Through a backend admin panel, they have 100% control over all text (English and Spanish) and images used on the site (they license them through Adobe). They can even (very easily) add/delete/edit services, employees and videos as warranted. The Suwanee Fest site is similar, but in one language only.

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Like your point of view. However after all these years this is the first time I receive potential clients asking specifically for those other web platforms. I managed to always use RW because is my tool of choice but always get the nickname the Rapidweaver guy. As you say it is rooted.

You are right! It’s what they know. I think it’s only me getting new possible clients that know just wordpress or wix and that is why they don’t want RW as my main tool.

“Can you make that website with Wordpress? I like to be part of the progress and make my changes when I need to, thanks”

That was the last email I received. Obviously I don’t know what she is talking about because I don’t work in Wordpress! Anyways, thanks for pointing that out. I was getting worried about using an obsolete tool without know it. Lol

It’s also a bit of FOMO.

My girlfriend has two businesses; her first one has a site that I made for her in RW. The second one, currently in the startup fase, needs to be a Wordpress + WooCommerce based site (in her opinion).

Her reasoning is that all the people she knows that run an e-commerce website use that combination. She’s been watching YT videos on the subject, and those also all recommend the WP + WooCommerce combination.

Who am I to argue though; if she really wants that combination, it will happen :wink:

I’m continuing to ‘weave’ all my other projects though.

And, to be honest, this is a good and valid point for asking for a WP / WC implementation: it gives the customer the feeling he’s not left alone or tied to a single developer and no one might be able to pick up work in case the web designer can’t help.

But WP is comming to the rescue: with all the great new features comming in, it makes simpler tasks (the ones the clients actually would like to do) more complex. I see many customers agreeing that perhaps changing a Google sheet or Airtable sheet might be easier for them. And so they don’t care about on how the site is built.

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@Albertkinng

Any WordPress site makes this super easy to do. And you automatically can give another person a specific “role” when they sign on. I believe there’s about 4-5 roles or levels. This is a huge bonus for WordPress.

CMS is built into WP. If you are getting more customers who want this ability then it’s time to learn WordPress. Or create a permanent “playground” (using one of the RW-friendly CMS options) where potential customers can experience for themselves the kind of environment you’d create for them to edit their future web content.

I’d much prefer to work in RW than WP, but there are some things WP does better or quicker than RapidWeaver.

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Several have already made the point that everyone considers the web-builder they’re using to be the best, and that’s natural. There’s also another angle: marketing. Those trying to push you to WordPress, or even more coding-intensive builders could be trying to generate work from those of us who don’t want to go back to school to learn how to run a coding-heavy solution. On the Six/Squarespace side, it might be even more blatant marketing for those platforms, which get in your pocket once per month for every domain you have.

I have no interest in either of those, and actually looked for years from the time it was obvious that Sandvox was going away until selecting RapidWeaver a year ago in December. I’m like the guy in the ancient early-Mac commercial: “I want a tool that makes me better at what I do… and I don’t do computers.” Substitute “coding” for “computers” and that’s me.

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And there’s Quick Editor by 1LD:
https://onelittledesigner.com/rapidweaver-stack/quick-editor-admin/

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Thanks for great discussion on CMS for RW, everyone! I have wondered about this and not tested the waters. Thanks again!

Thank you, Mathias!

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I understand that when this happens it can be a bit painful. Especially when so much money and time has gone into your Rapidweaver toolbox.

However, I can see where this opinion or argument is coming from and it’s actually not, at least in my view, without some foundation (no pun intended).

Look at base Rapidweaver from that non user perspective for a moment. It’s pretty dire, isn’t it? Page types which have not been current for years, no real support for code, no real layout tools. No built in CMS, No resources management tools. No support for collaboration. Even the API into the main application which the mighty Stacks plugin relies upon has not been updated or expanded for years.

It gets a new coat of paint every couple of years and toddles along thanks to the creativity and innovation squeezed out of it by Add On devs.

Stacks plus a few choice Add Ons levels RW up a bit but most web design professionals are not going to be too clued up about that or able to take that into account.

If you are going to measure RW plus Stacks, then what would you compare it to? Wordpress plus Divi or Oxygen? You can see where RW is going to come off worse, right?

I began with RW and Stacks and have everything to thank it, and the amazing dev community for, I really do. I just wish that were not a matter of nostalgia and that Rapidweaver had evolved to realise its potential rather than be hauled along by Isaiah, Will Woodgate, Joe Workman and many others.

So, I can understand the look you probably get when you mention Rapidweaver, I don’t think it is entirely fair or justified because there IS a more nuanced side to the story which helps, but isn’t going to go far enough to win you any prizes for credibility.

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I recommend Total CMS - absolutely brilliant. There is even a cheaper version called Easy CMS that might do all you need.

https://www.totalcms.co/pricing/

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