So with Elements in full beta stages and Stacks Pro’s new beta being promised any day now who has an allegiance with one over the other? Which platform is right for you?
For me I am patiently waiting for Stacks Pro to see how close it is to present Rapid Weaver. I followed Element’s videos for a good while and didn’t like the treatment the developers of platforms like Foundry and Foundation received. It seems that their ideas and hard work over the years has been completely lifted by Elements to be run as a self contained platform, excluding them from the equation. I also don’t like a platform that still forces me to rely on third party sources to create common elements, like forms and security. This by no means is not me saying I won’t ever buy into Elements. Time will tell.
For now I’m content on using Rapid Weaver Classic with Foundry…it ain’t broke and I can still create great sites…so no need to panic anytime soon.
One of the big misconceptions about elements is that it is copying Stacks, Foundry and Foundation. Elements is building on what those tools failed to deliver in many ways. I had one example on my blog that elements already in an early beta has essentially built what Megamenu should have been and they explain in the video.
I am all for seeing updates to Megamenu that improve the product to compete with elements but that product never came. Foundry 3 reduced the functionality that was available in Foundry 2 (and its expansions packs) and never added it back in.
The continuing problems with Stacks like ballooning file sizes by having multiple projects open at a time and its tendency to crash every time I hit the undo button can only be excusable for so long. When people say they are looking forward to Stacks Pro I have to ask what it even is. Just a replacement to RW Classic? Which already works fine? What is the point?
Valid points for sure, but my experience with Foundry 3 versus 2 was the polar opposite. The tools had so much more flexibility and with the Blacksmith stack it added so much more because of the ease in implementing custom CSS to anything.
I also found that RW would crash when hitting undo…super frustrating to say the least.
As far as Stacks Pro goes…I think the intention is to push forward where things left off. I just wish there was more communication in the way of progress, like the weekly Element VLOGS. I’m prepared to give each platform a chance to win me over and I’ll see which I gel with. I did try Blocs and didn’t jive with it. Way too complex and time consuming to create simple elements that I could do in seconds with RW. I may as well go back to hand coding and using Dream Weaver at that point.
I originally built my website with GoLive 5 and last updated it with GoLive 6. Until now, with Elements, that was the last website creation software that I liked and was able to easily use. I have bought Sandvox, Dreamweaver, Blocs 4, Sparkle (now Spritely), Rapid Weaver Classic (with Stacks and Foundry 2). I didn’t like ANY of them. All I wanted to do was easily redo my existing website using a recent and modern piece of software so that I could easily maintain and update it. I was not able to easily (or at all) do that with ANY of them. Until Elements…
I like Elements. I like working in Elements. Have I hit bugs?? Yes, and they are being fixed on the regular. Have I been able to redo my existing site?? Yes, I have and am about 2/3 of the way done. Have I had to learn new stuff and learn how to use Elements?? Yes, and while some of the learning took some time, it was easy. Not like the other software I tried. I can build stuff with Elements and enjoy it at the same time.
I am firmly Team Elements!!
And Foundry 3 has the ability to do Mega menus without a separate stack…Adam taught me to use the drop down in the regular Nav bar and throw a container stack in there.
I tend to be a bit pragmatic in my answers—maybe even more forgiving than I used to be. Since this topic is out in the wild now, here are my thoughts.
First, it has been, what, 3–4+ years since all this started? I am referring to the tension and blame games. I can only speak from my perspective. Dan and the whole team have grown with the experiences life has presented and are better for it—and so is the community, and so am I. I believe if we let ourselves learn, life does a great job of teaching us profitable lessons.
Second, RM is a team of people. RM is not a lone wolf developer. For the sustainability of my business and projects, this is critical. I can’t wait months or years for a product or fix because everything funnels through one person. Also, what happens if the solopreneur passes away? All my tools would be “end of life.” With RM, one or more of the other programmers can take over mostly with the same DNA and culture that was there before. There’s a built-in succession plan.
Third, it’s hard to deny that the feature list of Elements is developing quite nicely and a lot more is coming. Especially with the cloud services!
Fourth, the responsiveness and interaction of RM are awesome! They actively seek honest critiques, assimilate feedback, and provide solutions that, as much as possible, meet the needs of their users. Even when they missed the mark with the initial workflow, RM adapted and is now releasing V2 of the Components. All because we were given the chance to direct their paths! They are listening and not making excuses.
Fifth, the competitors don’t compare well in most of the areas of my concern I just listed.
For these reasons, along with a number of other personal and opinionated ones, I will stick with Elements. I feel confident that with a few more features and some final cleanups, we are on the path to having a brilliant web design solution with Elements!
That’s a great response…and makes me think I never put much thought into the solopreneur aspect. I very much plan to give Elements its fair opportunity to win me over through using it. I’ll do the same for Stacks and see which feels better.
I have pros and cons with both products - Elements: does not do certain things I’d like it to do…and don’t want to resort to searching for 3rd party options…which may require more money. Stacks: Impossible to say at this point because the only beta so far was non-working. Joe Workman promises a working product soon as Isaiah finishing working out the bugs.
I know presentation means a lot and so far I’ve seen so much content from Team RW…and anything Team Stacks has been occasional murmur on Discord.
At the end of the day it’ll boil down to which product I like more.
Isn’t that what StacksPro is? I’m not sure I understand this statement. I do however see the advantages of StacksPro. You can pick your own CSS Library, and sometimes mix and match. However mixing and matching brings its own issues.
I know that Elements is restricted to Tailwind. And that the Components are mostly restricted to a certain format and store, however, these limitations bring compatibility.
Also Elements has most of the stacks for Stacks built in for one single price.
StacksPro is fairly mature, so there are some deeper feature/solutions available. But I would lookout for the Elements cloud services. If I was a betting guy I would wager RM has a pretty solid vision and has probably developed that further than they are letting on. 
I just think it’s cool we get to watch all this happen. Pretty fun actually, in its own way.
Small correction, the Stacks plugin for RapidWeaver is fairly mature (currently at version 5.3.0).
The StacksPro app as far as I know has only seen one non-working beta release, with no further information or communications aside from continued “it’s coming soon” posts, so it’s not fairly mature.
Yes you are correct. I suppose I was thinking of the availability and variety of stacks. But you are correct, distinguishing between Stacks plugin and StacksApp.
“Any day now” was first said five months ago ;~).
It really feels like the whole Elements v. Stacks thing has become a Joe Workman production. Of course, he has a vested interest in the outcome, as does Dan with Elements. I really couldn’t care, as I simply will pick the best tool for the job, which right now seems to be Elements.
I also have to compare Dan’s more direct videos to Joe’s sprawling more improvised ones that go on lots of tangents. When I need information to solve a problem, I need direct, clear information or else I end up spending a lot of time I don’t have.
Like sbchasin, I’ve looked at all the various tools over the years. My original site 30 years ago was hard coded HTML. Pretty much everything that’s appeared over the years has liabilities and benefits. You make your decision upon whether the benefits outweigh the liabilities. If Elements “cleans up” as I expect, I see it as being a pretty clear choice, and have even suggested that others get into the beta program to get a head start on potentially using it.
I don’t think any of us have to choose teams. What we have to do is support those that make our life easier with tools that do as much of the grunt work we want to avoid as possible. Elements is shaping up very nicely in that respect.
Totally true…and frustrating as heck. Isaiah has done great things in the past but his lack of communication leaves a lot to be desired. We’ve been promised a working beta inside 2024, so time is running out…and we’ll have to see. I’m planning on messing with a few platforms and seeing which I jive with…Elements, Sitely, Stacks Pro.
Exactly! Well said. I’ve been brought into a lot of the ugly drama that occurred between Dan, Adam, Joe, Isaiah, etc…and I have nothing to do with any of it. I merely wanted to go from the days of hand coding (like you) to something a lot more advanced and efficient…so I could focus on the design and less on the “how to make it work”. I plan on implementing a bunch of available contenders and seeing which works best for my flow and style.
I agree with your comments, especially the concern over the risk factors when it is primarily left to a single point of potential failure. That has been my main concern for some time with Stacks.
I think the way RW have been so incredibly open about their development of Elements is brilliant. Contrast that with Stacks Pro and there is no comparison.
I realise that many developers of Stacks add-ons have invested heavily over time and may feel some trepidation with Elements but I think that is the wrong way to look at it. It will give many talented developers the opportunity to sell their products again, this time for Elements.
I have purchased literally hundreds of Stacks and many are quite good but they are also often inflexible. I think Elements provides an opportunity to enhance many of the functions of these Stacks.