Is Elements Really WYSIWYG?

Elements Feedback
1

I believe Elements is much more WYSIWYG than a lot of other website development apps, but is it enough?

My main argment for why it is not enough is because it is lacking the one thing that would REALLY make it WYSIWYG and that is the ability to INTERACTIVELY work with components in the editor. Things like resizing, etc.

So my question is why does Elements not go all the way to being truly WYSIWYG?

If there is a technical reason I would like to hear what prevents Elements from going all the way. It seems the ability to work interactively with things like sizing and positioning in the editor, would be huge for the people that are not wanting to code or understand the details of Tailwind.

Personally, I can live with Elements the way it is, but as with many of the people in the early BETA I want to see Elements succeed, and do it brilliantly. So Iā€™m interested in better understanding what might be preventing it from going that last extra bit towards a truly WYSIWYG environment.

I donā€™t ever want to have to invest in another website development tool. So my motivation is to see the one I have come to love become even better if at all possible.

Recently I have had the chance to play with the latest version of BLOCS 6 and it has some of these interactive features that are missing from Elements. I find Blocs to be cumbersome when compared to Elements, but the interactive features are complelling. I can see where they would have a strong appeal to the user who wants to create something interactively.

These ā€œquality of lifeā€ features can have a huge impact on productivity, and I believe on the success of Elements.

Hopefully, someone will take the time to explain if these types of features were considered, or possibly if they are something planned for the future.

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2

I have not used blocs enough to compare. In what way. What specifically are the features?

By interactive I assume you are describing things like drag to position, drag to resize, etc? Am I right? Is there more?

3

I too updated to Blocs 6, but I will also be buying Elements next week.

Keep in mind that Blocs has been around for 6 years, and Elements isnā€™t even out of beta yet, so of course Blocs will have a stronger feature set. When all is said and done I believe that Elements will be more intuitive and easier to use. I am excited about what the future holds for Elements.

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4

Yes, that is what Iā€™m referring to as the interactive editor features. As I mentioned for me it is not a big deal but I believe for novice users it would be a big deal.

I have looked at and used Blocs for a number of years. My intent was not to compare Elements to Blocs, but instead to try and understand why Elements has not gone that extra step.

I know for a fact that Elements is better than Blocs for my needs.

5

There used to be another web design app called Freestyleā€”at least, I think that was the name. It worked similarly to a graphic design app, but the issue was that it introduced a ton of random <div> elements into the HTML, resulting in very bloated code.

Elements, on the other hand, has the potential to produce nearly flawless code if used carefully. However, this comes with a tradeoff: the interface it provides.

Elements is built on technologies offered by Tailwind. This means Elements draws much of its innovative user interface from a larger, more active community. This connection provides a kind of ā€œbrain trustā€ that wouldnā€™t exist if it relied solely on Realmacā€™s smaller developer team.

Iā€™m sure there are far more technical answers, and Iā€™m not trying to make excusesā€”just provide reasons. That said, I do like the idea. Iā€™m just not sure it would be possible to achieve such clean, fast code in any other way without investing far more time and money than an indie developer typically has.

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6

Are you mixing up WYSIWYG with Direct Manipulation?

It sounds like you want to, for example, drag a boundary and see it update as you do (as opposed to entering a value for the boundary and seeing it update as you do). Personally, Iā€™ll take either.

One issue Iā€™m having with Elementsā€”and it would be worse with direct manipulationā€”is that you can have multiple elements that have effectively the same boundary. I find I often have to go into the outline view to make sure Iā€™m selecting the one I want to work on.

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7

Perhaps someway to click through levels?

8

That is not an argument at all. Feature sets depend on what the developers think they can realistically deliver and their priorities for those features. Elements not being out of beta is not an argument for missing features, especially at this point in development where a public beta is expected in ā€œearlyā€ 2025.

Blocs has a stronger feature set because that is what Blocs wants to offer. Period.

Blocs is priced at USD 179.99 for Plus. ONE-TIME. Whereas, Elements is USD 249 PER YEAR for Pro, if you want to continue getting feature upgrades after 1 year. I believe at that price, it will be its design philosophy and ease of use for users that will sell, not features, because feature-wise, at launch, it will fall short of Blocsā€™.

9

Blocs is certainly harder to use for someone who is not bothered with diving under the hood.

This is my early experience with Blocs:

  1. Blocs allows you to get started as well as come up with complex and large websites without paying a cent more than what you paid for Blocs.
  2. You may choose to pay for special-purpose ā€˜bricsā€™ that either make your job easier or extend functionality, such as the addition of Volt CMS, a one-time payment CMS solution.

With Elements, there is not going to be a CMS at launch, neither something essential as a Contact Form. Correct me if I am wrong.

That alone means that Elements, at launch, will necessitate additional payments over and above the USD 249 (for Pro) it demands, wherein the initial argument for that price was stated as that users anyway pay for stacks and that they would not need to with Elements. Well, it seems they will still be paying for ā€˜stacksā€™ just with a different name - components.

(The above is me talking about the product at its likely launch, and for something essential as a Contact Form. I am not generalizing here.)

May be in a future version, Elements will become a solid out-of-the-box solution that users can use without buying anything more. But, at launch, it wonā€™t be that way.

In a nutshell, Elements is visibly designed for everyday users who may not want to tinker under the hood to get things done. Elements team gives a lot of thought into that design philosophy, and that approach will garner its own fan base (including myself). An example of it is how simple it is to assess/ create a dark mode website. It is similar to Sitely in ease of use, maybe even implementation, which is a good thing.

And, then, Elements allows you to dive under the hood should you wish to. This is not as frequent or necessary as in case of Blocs, which is a major plus point for Elements, and is a testament to design philosophy and approach of @dan and team towards Elements.

Blocs, on the other hand, allows users to get started easily but may frequently necessitate diving under the hood and learn some things on the fly. For example, there is no easy way to implement automatic dark mode, as in Sitely and Elements. You will have to learn something about classes. Naturally, this may or may not be to everyoneā€™s taste.

These two approaches are in healthy competition with each other, and both will have their own passionate users.

I can see users using both Blocs and Elements, depending on what they want to achieve and how much time they want to put into achieving it.

10

I think similarly and will get Elements as well. Blocs and Elements can and will coexist for various purposes.

As of this moment, if I donā€™t need CMS or Contact Form, I would prefer using Elements to build a website.

11

Yes, this is one of the great things about Blocs is what you get as part of the overall package. Certainly everything I would need to build a decent website. I would not need to spend an extra dime to accomplish what I needed. That is a huge plus.

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12

I believe you can already do something like this by right-clicking on a component and then using the Navigate option to go back up the tree.

13

Yes, I do want direct manipulation, but in my mind that is part of what makes an app WYSIWYG.

14

At this stage no-one knows what will or wonā€™t be in Elements at launch. I suspect even RMS havenā€™t definitively decided so itā€™s wrong to be making assumptions.

15

It was Freeway by Softpress and we used it for a couple of years. As a publishing company, the designers who used Quark and Indesign immediately felt at home because it worked in a similar way. We needed PHP to call in stories from a database but other than this it was quite WYSIWYG.

It looks like itā€™s been shelved - itā€™s 32 bit and listed as ā€˜legacyā€™ so Iā€™d say development has ceased.

16

We want to make sure Elements is the best website builder out of the box on the Mac, period.

Over the past year, weā€™ve added new features and functionality that have brought Elements closer to being that perfect website builder. A huge part of what makes Elements special is the tight feedback loop from everyone here on the forum. Your insights and suggestions are invaluable.

It really feels like everyone here is invested in making Elements the best it can be. Sure, we all wish development could go faster and that we had every feature imaginable already in place, but if we keep pushing forward together, I truly believe weā€™re building something that is unstoppably good.

And finally, I can promise you weā€™re not done yet! We know there are still features missing (and weā€™re keenly aware of them). 2025 is going to be an even more exciting year for Elements :raised_hands:

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17

It would indeed be wrong to make assumptions, wouldnā€™t it?

https://forums.realmacsoftware.com/t/cms-for-elements/44808/9

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18

That you have, and that it does. Listening to user feedback, pondering over it, and revamping Components into V2 in the middle of the development cycle is admirable indeed. It does point to your focus on bettering the product and consequently the experience users have from it, out of the gate. :slight_smile:

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19

Nothing is set in stone, weā€™re working off all your feedback :smiling_face:

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20

Yep, that was it!