Thoughts on pricing

Elements Feedback
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I have been a very long time user of Rapidweaver (Classic now) and had purchased literally 100’s of stacks which have made life much easier.

I have also been testing out Elements and found that some of the add-ons are excessively expensive. e.g. Gallery Pro $US129, Password Protect $US79, Portfolio $US99 and worst of all, Essentials for $199!

I am finding that functions that I need where in the past they were relatively cheap add-on stacks, now it is very expensive and the number of options are much more limited.

For example, I wanted a simple form and to save the data to e.g. a Google sheet, I have to jump through hoops and basically come up with all the code myself. Of course there is a suggestion to use services such as Zapier but that can become costly as well.

And on forms they are quite limited and the documentation for using things like reCaptcha is non-existent in the documentation.

Maybe if there were developers writing add-ons then it may be better but that seems to be very limited and then RW have set an expectation of high prices which will stifle adoption.

Now, having said all this I like the direction of Elements but it certainly creates a great deal of work when in the past I would simply find a stack that did what I wanted.

Some things I use are accessing MySQL data, forms such as offered by Formloom with numerous options, DateSnap for Google calendars (I had to write my own which is not as good as DateSnap), PDF displaying stacks etc etc.

Hopefully some third party developers will come on board. The Stacks world is rich with options but they seemed to have stalled with their alternative solution.

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I agree - the addons offered currently are too expensive

It has to make sense for developers - but how are you going to get hoards of new users excited when addons are at these prices ?

Perhaps when you’ve grown the market considerably, you’re undeniably the best play in town and the maturity level all round is higher.

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I’m a fanboy of @dan and @ben and want to see them succeed and prosper…

We are all - maybe somewhat - small business owners. There are many challenges to this venture.

I understand your pricing concerns and I’m very positive and hopeful for the future.

Give them time.

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The RW Classic ‘ecosystem’ is no longer officially supported, so comparing RWClassic + plugin stacks + stacks doesn’t make much sense.

If you think Elements is right for you, you can use it :ok_hand:

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Hello,
As a newbie to Elements, I probably don’t have enough experience to judge the overall cost of such software.

For example, I run two or three websites as a hobby, and I thought that paying an annual subscription would give me access to all the features. That’s not the case. I’d like to have the “flip” and “pro gallery” options, etc., but they’re quite expensive. Having just bought Elements, I’m forced to wait…

What I thought I’d save on WordPress server rental, I’m going to spend on Elements, and in the end, I don’t know if I’ll come out ahead.

Looking forward to your replies.

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I’ve got 15 to 20 websites - been building since 1996…

Hard to say if it’s ’worth It’ for each individual…

Are you happy with the software?

Does it meet your needs?

Are you able to create what you envision in your mind?

Are you being limited?

Do you find things you can’t accomplish?

  • For Me - I’m very happy with Elements and web design and development became fun again… it was a drudgery for years… having to update and - had to make things work - now it’s fresh and enjoyable again….

Everyone is going to be different and feel differently about the value - for me - it’s been really good :+1:

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I don’t think that is what martef86 was saying, whether they think Elements is right for them or not isn’t the question, they were stating that the cost of add-ons was very expensive compared to stacks. Until third party developers are allowed onboard or decide to come onboard and develop lower cost add-ons. Sure if you are developing for companies or other individuals and getting paid, cost of add-ons is not such a big issue because you will get your investment back at some point. When it comes to add-ons and making life easy for the casual developer who is just developing for themselves or non-profit add-on cost is a big deal.

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Personally - I think when the store opens to devs - a common price point would be reached… could be wrong…

My total guess…

Depends on product and amount of detail etc… premium product or simple plugin….

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The average cost has already been defined by the internal store for Projects, layout kits and Components, it is possible to make a forecast on future costs for external add-ons, just consult the dedicated page

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I’ve been part of the RapidWeaver ecosystem long enough to see multiple waves of developers come and go, and one thing that has consistently hurt the platform is pricing that undervalues the work behind these add-ons.

Stacks created an incredible ecosystem, but it also set an expectation that complex functionality should cost $5–$40. For hobbyists that was great, but for developers trying to build sustainable businesses, it was extremely difficult. I personally watched several very talented developers close shop because the revenue simply didn’t support the time required to maintain, support, and evolve their products.

It’s easy to compare the price to what similar stacks cost years ago. But the real comparison should be what it actually costs to build, maintain, document, and support a professional tool today. A developer might spend months building something like that, and then continue maintaining it through platform updates, bug fixes, and support requests.

If we want RapidWeaver Elements to grow into a healthy ecosystem with active third-party developers, RealMac and 3rd Party developers need to be able to make a living. Otherwise the cycle repeats: developers burn out, products stop updating, and users are left with abandoned tools.

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Really well stated! Yes a sustainable living… totally agree :+1:

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It seems strange to remember, but developers are people, with families, children, mortgages to pay, and everything else. We invest time in development if it’s worth it, and the most important thing is that we need continuity and visibility to do so.

Currently, all external developers of Elements are forgotten, and the products for sale are no longer visible inter forum.

The new scenario doesn’t include an open marketplace, but only direct promotion by RMS (which will be managed in competition with their projects, kits, and components).

So goodbye to years of Google indexing and compliance, the new store is visible only within the app. This marketplace online will be discontinued

This is a new scenario and will be sustainable if we have many sales and RMS becomes a commercial partner who will have full responsibility for promoting us. I do marketing for companies and spend money on Google and Meta every month. When RMS announces their new marketing plan capable of replacing the power of Google’s current indexing of the marketplace online, we’ll evaluate it.

Aside from that, in the meantime, we no longer have visibility, we don’t know which components we can create without overlapping with RMS, and we have to wait for news.

But we are people, not AI. The problem of supporting our families remains and we must also work on other software to support ourselves. If we don’t have certain prospects, this is unfortunately inevitable and I’m sorry for this. :cry:

I, like others, love Elements and have dedicated a lot of time to promoting it. Let’s hope for the best for the future :crossed_fingers: :peace_symbol:

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Some really good valid points. Perhaps a range of price points will come from some healthy competition.

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I think that Elements is the right direction and much better than the Stacks path but my comment was relating to the cost of some of the add-ons. I have purchased a number of Multithemes products in the past and I think they are great.

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Yes. That was my point. I look forward to when skilled developers provide add-ons at a reasonable price point to simplify many of the tasks we try to accomplish. Elements is promoted as being no code dev. That is true for the most basic of sites.

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Great point!

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Two of the most successful businesses that sell as cheaply as possible are Wal-mart and McDonalds. Why do they have billions of customers? Because everyone can afford cheap.

Dan and Ben are blowing a huge opportunity to bring website creation to the masses with a wysiwyg tool. Think Intuit and Quiken. It was a category killer. Elements could easily be a category killer, but not with this pricing structure.

This is a common problem in businesses who are good at their profession, but don’t understand sales and marketing.

The reason we have classic, elements, stacks, and multiple failed add on developers is because of a certain malfeasance within the whole community in regard to pricing, stability, product release cycles, etc. Trying to get the strong dollar is the wrong approach.

Is the market there? It’s only there with enough users, regardless of how good the product is.

Selling software as a service and then selling separate components at a high cost is a massive contradiction.

The original poster has a legitimate complaint. I’ve thought about giving up this interest. There are plenty of other hacky solutions out there to get something on the web.

Personally, I thought things were more settled when I bought my license. Stacks hasn’t been released. My major developer dropped out. The situation is a mess. Elements is a good product, but can the ecosystem serve more than the main developer and a select few gurus? Doubtful.

The old product wasn’t really useful without Stacks. I’m not sure what the back story is between Isaiah and Dan, but one or both are responsible for their going in separate directions. The situation is unfortunate. And whatever caused it doesn’t seem to have been solved by either side being independent. Stacks promises compatibility with old stacks, but I couldn’t get the beta to work.

A product that helps people communicate created by people who have trouble communicating.

elements is a nice fresh rethinking, but is the goal to be simple or to be everything? It can’t be both.

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Steve, when I posted originally, I was just trying to draw attention to the expensive pricing for, in some cases, basic add-ons. I agree with the direction of Elements and understand they need to make money but it has to be seen to be value for money as well by the consumers. The world has numerous examples where great products fail because of simple mistakes like getting the pricing wrong.

I think that Stacks is not progressing well (as far as I can tell) as it is basically a one man show with some interested parties like Joe Workman - a skilled developer assisting. I always felt that Stacks was a risky proposition for the long term and this has been shown to be true as a number of developers of stacks have left the scene or abandoned their stacks. Even the Stacks developer himself has not updated his own stacks and no longer work.

Given the more open architecture of Elements, the opportunity is there for skilled developers to fill in the gaps and make some money and the same time make it easier for those of us who do not really want to re-invent the wheel every time we want to do what seems like relatively basic functions. The example I had mentioned in a previous post was how I had to spend ages developing a solution for reading and displaying a Google calendar on a web page. The was easy with the right stack in Classic.

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I’m new to Elements as a long-time Blocs user, but the $199 price for Essentials came as quite a shock. For me, it’s a big no-go. Even though I purchased the Plus option, there’s no way I would spend that much money on what feels like a must-have add-on package. A $99 price point would make much more sense — both to retain existing users and to attract new ones.

I understand the reasoning behind it, but the pricing of Essentials has really discouraged me from continuing with Elements. I believe it should have been included in the main package.

Because of this, I won’t be extending my subscription, and it looks like I’ll be going back to Blocs. Even I prefer the Elements environment, the videos, and the overall feel . . . the price of the Essential package is simply waaaay too off.

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Hi, just buy the flexon library from @WeaverPixel which adds more components/designs and is much cheaper.

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