RE: Yuzoolthemes Register Stack Not Working


(Dan) #1

So it seems my reply to this thread has ruffled a few feathers (e.g. I’ve had some emails from a few stacks/theme developers saying so).

I know should have bought this up here first in private, instead of replying publicly and for that I’m honestly sorry.

However. I still stand by what I said.I believe these customers have not been treated correctly. It’s bad that customer are asking for a refund (for a product they can’t get to work) and are not being given one :frowning:. This reflects on all developers (including us) in the RapidWeaver community badly.

When was the last time you asked for a refund online or in the real world and didn’t get one? Wouldn’t you be pretty annoyed if one wasn’t given when you’d repeatedly asked? (especially if you couldn’t get the product to work). I know I would be.

None of us are perfect and I know I’m not, but if a customer asks for a refund I always, always give them one. Even if they manage to resolve the issue we often offer a refund as a good will gesture. This goes a long way, and we’ve found customers are more likely to purchase from us again in the future.

I hope this clears things up a little.

Cheers,
Dan

cc @yuzool @instacks @Marten_Claridge @Doobox

EDIT: The public thread has now been closed and is unlisted on the forum to protect everyone involved. I would however, still like to suggest that all developers (if they are not already) start offering a 30-day money back guarantee or similar.


(Doobox Software) #2

That s not going to happen here I am afraid. I have been ticking along quite nicely dealing with my customers on a customer by customer basis, each to their own merit. If I can’t fix an issue in 10 mins, and they want a refund they get one. I am happy they brought it to my attention (a small price to pay to highlight a bug).

Most customers are just happy to know, you know, and have it in hand.

Were all pretty smart over this side you know. We’ve all been doing this stuff for quite some time.


(Jannis from inStacks Software) #3

I am also not able to allow a general 30 days get your money back guarantee. That would be counter productive for running a sustainable small business we all want to have. Legally, digital downloads are excluded from a right of refund, at least in Germany. And that is also the official rule for my business.

I am providing a high quality customer service as a lot of us are also doing. In the rare case if a customer is not able to get a product working by himself, I will help until success. I never had a case where I was not able to get to that point.

To the other 0.1% rare cases:

  • I am giving a refund to each customer not having understood something correctly because of unclear product information, incorrect documentation or bugs I am not able to solve in a short period of time.
  • If I offered a free refund just because the customer is too lazy to read the tutorial, watch the introduction video, have a look on the demo website, or don’t want to go the extra mile of support together with me, I would make it too simple for the customer to step back from the purchase.

I would love to build real demo versions of my products with support of the framework, but that is a different story.


(Gary) #4

With all due respect, I think that there are probably some guys who are fearful of responding on these forums with how they truly feel out of fear of being blackballed or back-benched. After all, it is your forum and you and RMS have been very gracious to each of us over the years. You have created this wonderful app and have opened it up to 3rd party developers and we have each enjoyed the benefits from that.

It would be one thing to expect 3rd party products to be developed in a certain fashion to meet certain criteria to the benefit of the end user. None of the 3rd party developers that I communicate with have any real gripes about that sort of thing.
The angst comes when it is perceived that you are telling us how to run our business. It was our investment of capital, it is our investment of time, it is our investment of classes or learning of new technologies, it is our investment of staff, and it is ours to determine what the return on those investments should mean.

Personally, I do not think your intention was to tell us how to run our business … I’ve been here since 2004 and you have never told us how to run any part of our business. So I am inclined to believe that you were just offering a polite suggestion to us, but the perception was that you were and that is what has feathers ruffled.


(Adam Shiver) #5

I tried many times, writing many drafts, attempting to say what @Gary has said above, but I couldn’t come up with such an eloquent way of putting it. I fully agree with his his statement and its sentiment; every part of it.

…but the perception was that you were and that is what has feathers ruffled.

That added to the fact that is was done quite publicly added insult to injury, unfortunately.

I know should have bought this up here first in private, instead of replying publicly and for that I’m honestly sorry.

I don’t want it to seem like we’re not acknowledging your apology. I know I was very happy to see that part of your post here in the private forum. I thank you for that. I’d wished though that it had been in the public forum like the original post was.


(Michael Frankland) #6

I second @instacks @Doobox @Gary and @Elixir here…

The apology should have been public and in that thread. And perhaps even directed at me too. Just hiding that thread sends out mixed messages to us and the users. It was read over 1k times. It makes it appear like you’ve changed your mind and you’ve lost the plot and not sure how to sail this ship.

Please remember everyone of the 3rd party developers are right behind you and RapidWeaver. We are all in this together and want success for everyone.

But sometimes it feels to me like you @dan don’t see it that way and see us as a hinderance. You couldn’t even get my name right on the podcast :sweat: I remember you saying a high tide makes all boats rise - we have bought into that and believe it.

If you need help or want to make suggestions, please reach out privately in this thread firstly. We all work really hard and are constantly talking with customers and making product updates so your aloof tone was just insulting. On the other hand for example, do you see us complaining publicly about the poor quality control in the shipped 7.1? And saying “if this guy is not happy, why not give him a refund?” No, instead you see @isaiah, Joe and a bunch of others sending in bug reports. It’s because we care.

RapidWeaver is your baby - but we’re here to help not hinder. But for the love of nachos, please reach out before casting doubt.

As for the refund itself, we worked with the client for 6 months. Even doing server work for them but in the end they refused help. That’s not our problem and wasn’t a bug in the product. But you weren’t interested in the background on that. Why should we offer a refund after 6 months? That’s ridiculous.

I know how to run a business as do the other guys who have been doing this for 10 years, and I think we were the first to offer a 30 money back guarantee. We only just stopped it after 2.5 years because we noticed a trend in RapidWeaver users starting to file and complain about things that were actually due to other reasons and some just wanted free addons, so felt it was unfair.

That said, we are always looking to make things better so will see how best to proceed.

Hope you learn from this and trust us more. Without 3rd party developers, RapidWeaver would perish. We all know that. So let’s please be open and honest and communicate better.

Here’s to a bright and kinder future of working together and success to all :beer:

Peace out.


(Dan) #7

Point taken, have made the original post visible again along with this one like it originally should have been. Honestly sorry about this, hopefully we can move on forward now.

Cheers,
Dan


(Gary) #9

A little disappointed that comments made in private were made public, but hey, it was a risk I took when making the comment.


(Michael Frankland) #10

Thanks @dan

As I DM’d you earlier (as we’re revealing prviate messages these days I’ll paste that here):

@yuzool: Hopefully that’s the end of that now and we can move on and help each other?
Pretty please with icing on top :icecream:

So, yes, moving on forward is what I would like …


(Michael Frankland) #11

I wouldn’t worry, what you said was bang on the money and fair. And not rude at all - quite smooth actually.

But I echo your disappointment. Integrity has just left RealMac HQ :frowning: Sigh…